Jacked Up - Kenny Wolfe

Kenny Wolfe joins Jerome Myers on the Myers Methods Presents Multifamily Missteps Podcast to discuss the missteps with coordinating move outs to lift a building. We learn why he decided to bring property management in house and how to buy across the country.  Kenny shares how he jumped into multifamily by doing two passive deals and then syndicated a 76 unit.  We hear about a 2 bedroom unit with 16 mattresses in it and the pain of finding sewer breaks.

Kenny believes that there isn't much difference between driving an hour and a half and flying the same distance.


In this weeks show we learn about:
- importance of accurate accounting
- things to look for when buying a company
- how to upskill your company by hiring
- what happens when cash for keys doesn't work
- challenges of older properties
- what drove the migration to Texas
- how much "cushion" is enough
- what dilution of equity means
- importance of being a people person

If you are interested in getting more multifamily investing education go to www.myersmethods.com

Say hi to Jerome
Say hi to Kenny

Transcript

Kenny Wolfe:   0:00
so we had on those foundation issues, we had to lift all four built for each building at the same time. So each building had to be lifted. The whole building, right? So which meant that oh, all of the bottom eight units had to be bacon at the same time. So way. It seemed like every single building, all four building. If he had one holdout on the bottom floor, that would not move. And I mean, I I offered him 500 bucks 1000 bucks to knew they wouldn't do it on DSO. We had to keep the whole bottom for bacon of that building until they're at least expired. And we could not renew him, right? So that that that killed us as

Jerome Myers:   0:32
an operator. I know other investors are romanticizing multi family invested, and I'm looking to learn from other investors. Mistakes. I know you are, too. You found the right place. Welcome to Myers Methods presents multi family missteps. Hey, everybody, Welcome to minds, methods presents, multi family missteps. I have the great pleasure of having Kenny Wolf with me on the day. Kenny. How are things down in the Fort Worth, Texas area?

Kenny Wolfe:   1:14
They're great man. We're here in Plano, Texas. The I mean, life is good. It's supposed to get cold down. 42 tonight. But other than that, you know, Well, we called for us in April, so, uh,

Jerome Myers:   1:25
yeah. I mean, it was 90 degrees here in Greensboro a couple of days ago,

Kenny Wolfe:   1:29
so Wow. Yeah,

Jerome Myers:   1:31
up and down. Just like everything else is crazy in the world right now. Can you do me a favor and tell me a little bit about your background and what you've been working on?

Kenny Wolfe:   1:41
Yeah. So we've been investing in multi family assets for over nine years now. Got started in 2010. That's great. Time to get started on, then. We've grown, too. Now we're 4000 units that we've been in part of over five different states. Right now, we're down to four states in solar deal in Colorado. So we're in Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana and Ohio. There were multiple markets in Ohio and Texas on that front. And then about two years ago, I got fresh with her third party managements, one about my own. So I bought into an existing multi family management company. Um, we're on the hunt for a 2nd 1 there to acquire another one there in Ohio. That way, all of our stuff is basically in house on that. And then two years ago, he branched out. Started buying smother up assets to. So we also invest in triple net properties, Um, am $13 stores and three different states with you. Hard money lending is well, we just wanted to boutique hotel in Dallas in January and then fourth and final thing that we do is ground up development. So we're working on an 88 unit ground up multi family property now in Dallas for work.

Jerome Myers:   2:47
Wow! Wow! Wow. Wow, That's a whole

Kenny Wolfe:   2:50
lot of

Jerome Myers:   2:51
here's What were you doing before you jumped in the Maltese

Kenny Wolfe:   2:55
eso before multi family? I was an oil and gas. I was. I was a CFO at the age of 28 of a spinoff company, and there they shipped us over to Shreveport, Louisiana. We did that for three years, and then voil gases is highly cyclical, a cz anybody that has studied it all. But so anyway, so we jumped in right in the multi family, so I've never owned a single family run for my life. I don't ride into multi Finn, so it's pretty awesome. Our first indication was 76 units on from 0 to 76. What?

Jerome Myers:   3:26
So where you the lead on your first bill? You came in his LP or what?

Kenny Wolfe:   3:29
Well, so my 1st 1st 2 deals were passive. So when was the 200? You deal in Dallas in Arlington, Texas, and the other one was 154 units. There's a too passive deals. When was that? You'll play was a value play. Like I kind of see you see both business models on, then. Thirdly, all we did was a syndication deal up. 7 76 units here in Dallas, Fort Worth.

Jerome Myers:   3:49
Wow. So you're a part of, like, a investor group or how did you get?

Kenny Wolfe:   3:53
I was I'm gonna love my from to Kruger's actually. So But now, now, now I'm a free agent. So I like. That's that's much better now, But But I did. I started there. I think that's a good place to start for some folks. Um, you know, I'd say probably of the folks who actually paid the high 2030 k, whatever it is to get to do that to do the one on one mentorship fellow 20% action with deal, which is, you know, which is horrible. But that's just kind of what it is,

Jerome Myers:   4:20
Kenny. That's one of my pet peeves and part of reason why we started our educational programming. It's just I don't think you have to buy use BMW or Mercedes to figure out if you're going to be successful in this business

Kenny Wolfe:   4:31
and so right. I totally agree. And we have folks that asked me if it's worth. And I said, Well, if you if you if you feel like you need to raise money in those groups than maybe you know that to me was the biggest benefit of those groups is how much money can you raise in that group? Your first deal? Because if you can raise a $1,000,000 well, that that means you can trade up and go into a 70 80 unit deal where he can afford the full time third party management and all that stuff, and not start with the 20 unit, which is not fun. So from what I hear,

Jerome Myers:   5:00
it's not fun. We haven't but, you know, you learn a lot with them. And if you make, you can recover. Um, the one thing that I've seen, though, is like a lot of people pay that amount of money, and then they just get the opportunity to raise money for other people's deals. They don't actually lead. And so my thing is, let me go figure out how to lead a smaller deal and then use that experience to build on. And, you know, that's what we've been doing with,

Kenny Wolfe:   5:26
you know? I mean, there's multiple ways. I mean, there's there's many ways to get into it where the Because it is definitely a team sport, multi family. So you can get into it. I mean, a whole bunch of different ways.

Jerome Myers:   5:36
Yeah. So I don't know if you have a specific deal you want to talk through, but the thing that you lead with is I got frustrated with property management, so I bought my own. I don't know which way you want to go, but that was really

Kenny Wolfe:   5:49
intriguing for me. Okay, Well, um, well, I mean, I could talk about that, too. That I was I had another one in mind on actual property. Specific one, but we could talk about that to third party management. The, uh uh, It's a very fractured business, you know, industry, multi family management. There's a lot of like just immediate, crappy to mediocre players out there. I think this actually, when you go through a crisis like this, is gonna show who's the good management and who's the bad management s. So I think we're going to see that play out over the next, probably 3 to 6 months on that. But, I mean, I'm an accountant by trade. And so if you can't, I got frustrated with the two or three apartments coming to be used down here in Dallas Fort Worth, because their accounting would never be right. They'd always have cat back stuff above the line. I'd have toe. I'd have to correct it every single month, and and I just got frustrated because they they wouldn't listen to me so they don't listen to you. You go by what? So on the option of the other option was to start your own, and that was gonna be like an 80 hour a week, you know, time suck. And so I just figured it's well worth it just go. Go buy into one and help help mold it from afar. It already had a CEO that Randall the data days. They already had a great accounting system. They had, you know, they had all the all the basics there that we could build off.

Jerome Myers:   7:10
So what was attractive about the company that you purchased? And what were some of the tweets or changes you made in order to make it more of what you wanted to see from a property management standpoint?

Kenny Wolfe:   7:22
Yeah, So one I just knew it off with the other with the with the owner and the founder, I definitely not with him on a personal level were cut from the same cloth. And so anyway, so that was great. But also to they had actually on the deal. I was I was voted in to save a deal in Oklahoma City. There was another was actually a coach of a guru guy just handed over the keys to me to turn it around. So before he did that he got in this management company. Allied are pretty management on DSO. But in two weeks later, he just hand over the keys to me to be the asset management because we had bought a deal on a mile and 1/2 south of there in Oklahoma City. Um, 148 units and his is 84. So he said, you know, you're close enough, you know, just just go do it. So anyway, so he did it, so he turned around. But Andi, I take some of that credit, but really, you know, kind of on the ground stuff I could I got to see from a front close on personal was deal with Allied. And then how I did that turn around. And so we got that thing at 78% occupancy in on in October. And then by January, it was like 92% occupied. So Oklahoma City is not like a fast leasing town. It's, you know, and then it's also that's the dead months to start to go from 78 to 92 over. You know, in that situation out, that was great on. And then I just get like this. I've educated off, and so we, um you know, we talked about doing that. I brought all my properties over to him on and then, you know, now we've never really beefed up our staff. And so, like our CFO. Now, for Allied missus, CFO for the family Crow are the crow family trust for 20 years, which is pretty awesome. The Crow family. I don't know if you don't know him, but but the crow family is Ah is like Dallas royalty on real estate. Here s that was pretty awesome. Awesome. The land. And then our VP of operations came from Lincoln property groups. He worked there for about 15 to 20 years before coming over to us. It was kind of cool to kind of start seeing that, um, kind of trading up on getting, you know, better and better employees.

Jerome Myers:   9:21
Wow, that's awesome. So you know what it sounds like is there's alignment of values. He had a service and skill set those complimentary to what you needed And that kind of messing created opportunity for you guys. The, uh, join forces and make a superhero,

Kenny Wolfe:   9:39
right? Well, that that time too for him, for his side, I brought in. All my units are the battle are all the ones in Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma, on dso that basically doubled his unit count. So it all a sudden made him from, you know, 1517 100 units back. Then tow 3400 which is a huge I mean to be profitable management. You gotta have 2 to 3000 units to be profitable. So it was a way we can both kind of. It was a win win for both of us.

Jerome Myers:   10:05
That so sorry to take you on a tangent, but

Kenny Wolfe:   10:08
that's okay.

Jerome Myers:   10:09
Property management is the end. All be all on whether your deal successful or not. And you kind of shook your head towards that when he said, Hey, you know, I was asked that manager, but Ally did a lot of the day to day stuff on the turnaround. So let's talk about that deal that you want to speak about

Kenny Wolfe:   10:26
in particular. Yes, it was. It was our second deal second syndication deal with 133 units in Denton, Texas. We bought it for 34 door back in 2013. So So, yes, it was cheap. Anybody back then, too? It was It was really a d class feel, you know, to be honest, no one, no one admits that, but it really was. It was a D class deal, but, uh, just got, like, new diligence. We were walking through. One of the units was a three bedroom. We counted 16. Max, this is in this three bedroom unit. They're all lined up against the wall. So just imagine, every night you have to do this Tetris kind of game to figure out how to fit all the mattresses in there. But that's kind of who was living to this land. Horrible. You know what? He was what he was doing there. So anyway, so we knew we had a big issue there. On the management side, we also knew there's about 1/4 $1,000,000 worth the foundation work I'm going into. It s so so we had all these issues that we knew were gonna tackle. So all that was great raised money up front. For all of our rehab, the biggest. The biggest hurdle that we hit with that deal on it made me miss my first year cash flow Projections on that deal was that, um so we had on those foundation issues, we had a lift. All four bills are each building at the same time. So each building had to be lifted. The whole building, right? So which meant that Oh, all of the bottom eight units had to be bacon at the same time, so we wouldn't. It seemed like every single building, all four building. If he had one holdout on the bottom floor, that would not move. And I mean, I I offered him 500 bucks, 1000 bucks to new. They wouldn't do it on dhe. So we had to keep the whole bottom for vacant of that building until they released expired. We cannot renew him, right? So that that that killed us.

Jerome Myers:   12:04
What's so, guys? Is your host your own? I just want to let you know we watched Miles Matheson the father 2019 with ambition to inspire a new breed of If you are interested in getting in a multi family are scaling your current business up overtired website and my eyes met this dot com free forceps. Guy how to get the ball rolling. Now let's get back to the O.

Kenny Wolfe:   12:28
Plus I'm on that. That was the biggest earning. Their learning thing was, was having too. If you're gonna raise a building, the whole building. It's gotta be big on the bottom floor. And so to keep that keep that in mind and your cash More projections because that held us back a little bit by not being able to strike a deal with those books. Haven't offered him until, like moving myself. Look, I will move you myself up with the moving company. You know, all other, all kinds of stuff, Adams. And they just won't move shop. Eso really hurt our our first year cash flow. We ended up doing like a four X on that. The only sold it in January of this January. So the four x return to investors. But that first year, we definitely kind of missed our our cash flow projections on that deal. We also found, like, 14 sewer line breaks. We had to fix those. So anyways, that that's what was causing the foundation issues. But anyway, that was that was our learning. That was probably one of our biggest kind of rehab learning our learning learning points, uh, on a deal.

Jerome Myers:   13:28
Now I gotta ask, You guys weren't scared of the foundations.

Kenny Wolfe:   13:36
So in Texas, in Texas, we have really bad soil. Eso it's not. If it's not. If you have a foundation problem, it's when you have a rendition problem here in Texas. So it's more of a warm down here to have foundation issues. Like when you buy a property down here. Uh, you know, and you're probably going to spend I mean, our how new it is. But even we just bought a class deal. Um, two years ago, the end of 28 TV about 85 steel. Um, and it had 2030 K worth of foundation, stuffy head of fixed, Um, but just kind of the norm down here. So it's not Ah, you know, wave assets in Ohio. And if if we see Anna Asset in Ohio have foundation issue that that's a big deal in Texas, it's the normal. Just have really bad soil down here. Some.

Jerome Myers:   14:22
So is the soul, like shrink. So shrinks

Kenny Wolfe:   14:24
think it's play its expansive play. Okay, hold basically. So

Jerome Myers:   14:29
how that's That's wild And you guys aren't scared of you. You'll just go ahead and jack it up. And so tell me about that process like, how do you actually fix It

Kenny Wolfe:   14:39
s so you've got a way. Had to interior interior peers. And so we had a car we had, and it was a slab. You know, it's a concrete slaps. You gotta cut out squares of the slab, obviously take up all the flooring, um, and then on, then jack it up, check the whole building up at once on, and then you fill in the slap, their I'll redo the flooring, all that kind of stuff. So it's a big project.

Jerome Myers:   15:03
They like. They pour appears. And then they retired the slap to the piers.

Kenny Wolfe:   15:10
Right? Exactly.

Jerome Myers:   15:11
And this is civil engineering at its finest man.

Kenny Wolfe:   15:15
Yeah, we had way had two or three engineers go out and check it out for us to see. How about the scope is because they all will tell you something different, so Oh,

Jerome Myers:   15:21
wow. So you said you had to get all eight units vacant at the same time. Did you? Prior to purchasing it? Were you able to, like see where the lease is expired? Are because you know

Kenny Wolfe:   15:33
it. And that was that. That was the mistake, right? That was the mistake that I did. That I didn't take into account was that you know, these buildings that had foundation issues. We're going to be all taken at the same time. And so way knew the information. I just didn't. It isn't translate for me over to, you know, the rehab part, actually, doing the, uh, those building, you know, raising those buildings

Jerome Myers:   15:55
minor detail. Okay.

Kenny Wolfe:   15:57
Yeah. Yeah. So I had to mix, Let me do the investors. But, you know, after that sale in January, you know, they're all prepared It pretty dang happy about it,

Jerome Myers:   16:06
I bet. Was this a two storey walk up or what?

Kenny Wolfe:   16:09
Yeah, it's a two story ill. Yeah. Two story garden style built 1968 which is pretty old here for Texas. I was older, older building for us.

Jerome Myers:   16:17
You know, everybody keeps talking about in the sixties and seventies being old. But I mean, are you guys saying stuff down and putting up new Like, how does that work?

Kenny Wolfe:   16:27
Yeah, I mean, in Texas, the only old building we have is the element. Everything else is built, like 19 sixties and new herself. That's not all the way true. But mostly, um, the, uh yes. So we don't have a lot of 19 sixties seventies, sixties air, pretty old for Texas. Uh, just cause it's Yeah. You tend to tear stuff down and build new, um, and bristly excess so you won't see a lot of we don't have a lot of just old kind of historic buildings. You all downtown in places like that. The population boom in Texas didn't like him about until the air conditioner was invented on. But that's no joke. That like look, look that up for those air one of research it. But it's true. Eso really that was wrong. 50 sixties. And that kind of, you know, that really drove the population increase here.

Jerome Myers:   17:14
Well, was there any process improvement change? Because I assume you still buy stuff that has issues with foundations. Have you guys modified your process or implemented anything from a property management standpoint to keep this from happening again?

Kenny Wolfe:   17:29
Yeah, absolutely. Well, so one, you know now, yeah, we'd be having bought another day away where we had to raise an entire village. We haven't got one like that on the other ones have been just like corner pieces where you don't have thio where you don't have to have any vacant units. You could just go underneath and jack it up there if you need to touch it up. But so, yes. I mean, if we have it, we have to buy another one that needs the whole building race. Were for sure. Make sure to calculate on that into our first true cash flow is to happen. Have those vacant?

Jerome Myers:   17:57
Well, um, we have a building. We bought a building of Virginia that had a similar issue itself. It was a corner, and it sunk so much that it snapped the sewer line.

Kenny Wolfe:   18:09
Oh, yeah.

Jerome Myers:   18:11
So you know, people have sewage backing up into their units, and we didn't get it when we close, like we're like, Oh, we see, like, the stains and stuff. But we just thought that the previous property owner, Dan, fix it after, maybe somebody's putting fiber in and drove through the outflow outflow line or something. Right then. It all made sense when we started making the transition, right? Like 30 or 40 grams,

Kenny Wolfe:   18:37
right? You have to love the love those days when you get those those bids for that kind of work. So that's why you gotta have the rainy day fund, right? So we always raise extra toe and just put it into a We use chase, but one of those, you know, checking account. That makes it nothing. But But it's gonna have that. You gotta have that rain today. You know, cushion.

Jerome Myers:   18:59
How much actual with sexual for you guys. How much actually do you raise?

Kenny Wolfe:   19:03
So I try to do about at least a 2 to 3 months of expenses, Okay. Just sits there. Sometimes we doom, or if it's a heavy rehab will do more than that. It's a light rehab. It's kind of our threshold is is that number, but heavier. The rehab. We like to pad pad and the whole thing as many places. To be candid, Thio, you know, make sure we got it, got it right, So we don't have the $30,000. Well, so when we do have those $30,000 surprises, uh, you know, we could get him. We got him covered.

Jerome Myers:   19:33
I really appreciate your worry choice when we do. I think a lot of people think a we don't ever have an issue. And that's the whole point of the pie cast. Like we can't Stella, operators like you come on and say, Hey, look, this happened, you know, we fixed it and we moved on, and then we make sure that we don't make the same mistake again. But there's no reason for me to go make the same mistake that you made on lift up the whole building,

Kenny Wolfe:   19:55
right? Yeah, Don't do that.

Jerome Myers:   20:01
So this is always interesting. So that balance on the rainy day fund, like there's some delusion of equity, you know where it

Kenny Wolfe:   20:10
is? Yeah, there is on then. So if it's if you repent, if we when we pad the rehab number when we do that, you know that construction on and you know 12 18 months typically, if we have extra, we'll return that capital to the investors on the rehab side on the operating, you know, rainy day fun. Um, we tend to just keep that all the way through. It's because it's yeah, probably waters it down, but maybe, like 5 10%. But everybody sleeps better at night, so it's a much better way to go.

Jerome Myers:   20:41
Better to have a little delusion of equity than a capital call.

Kenny Wolfe:   20:45
Exactly right. Amen.

Jerome Myers:   20:49
Those air. No fun. So what would you if you had to give some words of wisdom to some folks who were in the space, either getting in and looking to scale. What would you share with him?

Kenny Wolfe:   21:01
Um, so you know it's going picking on the goobers again. They'll tell you asset management is easy. It's not. It's a full time gig, but so which is fine if you enjoy it. So you got to really enjoy the asset management and getting dirty sometimes and, you know, and charge him in. It's a people business, so you gotta have. You have to have people skills or be able to learn those people skills. Whenever we have an issue on a product property, it's always people, whether it's ours or residents or neighbors, or it's always a people issue, right? So so you have to be a people person. Be able to connect. Be down to Earth, I think helps it's resting on the maintenance line. Connecting with those guys is always is always, ah per to do as well, but it's not the by by a big time asset and take you like to three hours a month to check on the management company. It's it's a little bit more than that. So

Jerome Myers:   21:54
you're telling all of the secret?

Kenny Wolfe:   21:56
I know. Sorry, man. I think

Jerome Myers:   22:00
the most difficult piece of asset management ISS I mean, I think there's two pieces, right. There is the actual operational strategy execution piece of it. And then there's accounting piece, which I would imagine it's pretty intuitive for use because of your training, but where's the rub for you?

Kenny Wolfe:   22:17
Um, really? It was for me was when I got about 2500 units, I felt like I was way too much for me, eh? So I started hiring people. So now what? Now I have an asset manager, which is great. That's that's pretty awesome. So, um, so he has to do or he gets to deal with the property. And, you know, the insurance property taxes on. Then we both visit the properties. Um, quite a bit still, Um, he'd be more than me, but but I still like to go, and, uh, and that way we can cover more ground on our property, but because we are spread out, right, we own stuff in Cleveland, Ohio, Columbus, El Paso, Texas. You know. So? So we can cover more ground with two of us. A swell. So that was a big help is to be ableto have to people and government way more ground.

Jerome Myers:   23:03
You're the first person I've talked to this across the country. What? How are you picking your market market?

Kenny Wolfe:   23:10
Um, you know, we got into, you know, start out of here in Dallas Fort Worth. I thought four or five years ago the prices were high, so I was a little early, so I just like to say, Look at a map and say, What's the biggest essay that's closest to Dallas forward. So I drove it to Oklahoma City. It's like about hour and 45 minutes, Um, up there one way. And then I drove it back that night and then on the way back s Oh, I like that market to driving because it was a lot of mama pops, the whole the whole, you know, City is all Mama papa owners, which just like I mean, so they're not efficient on revenue, and they're not efficient on expenses. So I was ready to, you know, mop up there, Um, the, uh but on the way back had to solve a moment. It's like if I'm going to drive, you know, an hour and 1/2 out. It was two hours one way. Um, you know, and and then back a day. What does it look like? I get on a plane, you know, So that that really kind of took me like, Oh, my gosh, I could I could get to Ohio almost in Indiana. Like all these other great markets. It was like, really die again. It's actually the first market we bought outside of Dallas. Fort Worth is in Colorado Springs, Colorado. So that kind of got me up. Thinking much bigger is like, Oh, my gosh, for buying these big assets like this, You know, I don't need Thio. I quiet When I first bought that deal on Carlos Springs. I flew to that property more often than we did with this. Are 76 unit that we still own today. It's like 45 minutes away from my house. Just cause that one was it's always 95 98% occupied, you know, there's really unstable. There's nothing for me to go. I get in the way. If I go to a property like that, right, because they're not leasing. And they're not, you know, dealing with presidents, no less. So I was actually more visiting Maur our deals in our A zbig rehab deal in Colorado Springs. We did, but, um, so But again, if you're willing to drive or a Knauer two hours when what does that look like on a plane? Because we go, I got a Columbus, Ohio. They're back in the same day. Um, which long day? That's a two hour flight. So you gotta think that you've got to hit all your properties and land and hail the properties. Usually that means no lunch on then, uh, and then back on the plane that night. So usually I'm in home same night, which is nice for the family.

Jerome Myers:   25:16
For you to go into a new market. How many doors would you require? Do you require?

Kenny Wolfe:   25:23
That's a good That's a good question. So I I just gotta pitch the deal. It's an A class steel in Arkansas, right? So again, like it's a hot spring. So it's a tourist to town, right? So but because it's 89 units and, like, 89 units that that's on the border now, if it was 80 is it is 80 something units for Ah, like a B or C. I probably wouldn't do it, but, hey, you're gonna collect enough revenue where that's probably translates to maybe 120 units, maybe 100 50. So it's kind of our threshold Is the hunt 120 150 somewhere? I mean, the real number is, if you can afford a full time on site manager and maintenance if you're if you're buying a 50 unit in a different state I mean, I don't know if I would do that, because I was one. Our properties have its own staff and not have to share um share staff if we can.

Jerome Myers:   26:12
You brought a full circle back to property management problems.

Kenny Wolfe:   26:16
Well, there you go. It's a It's a big deal. Big deal.

Jerome Myers:   26:20
That's awesome, Kenny, I don't Do you have any wrapping out thoughts

Kenny Wolfe:   26:24
now? I mean, guys, stay calm. Stay calm out. There is This is a great time to invest. I hear folks that are just claiming up, not buying anything, and we haven't seen this good a deal flow in a very long time. We were looking at six deals, right now, two of them were just gonna take, uh, possibly to take over their loans in Cleveland. So they're gonna they're just gonna walk away from some of these deals. I do think it's Ah, It's a tale of two cities on deal flow. So I think the stable, nicer assets are gonna ride that this short kind of recession pretty quick. The ones that were struggling beforehand are gonna have a big issue. So those are the ones that we're looking at again? We've got six of them on our desk looking at these from Lovett to Cleveland. Some in Arkansas also s o say, uh, everybody stay healthy, wealthy and wise out there, too.

Jerome Myers:   27:11
That's awesome, Kenny. Thank you very much. We'll talk soon.

Kenny Wolfe:   27:14
All right? Thank you. Drunk.

Jerome Myers:   27:16
You made it to this juncture. So you really love what we shared on this episode of Meyer's methods? Presents multi family. Mr. Do us a favor, give us a five star rating, give us a review and share this with somebody who's interested in the way